How would you fix the upgrade system?

Here is a recap of what we have been discussing so far:

Main issues to fix:

  1. Upgrade regression on fail
  2. Amount of gems to use

From forum

Set a floor: How would you fix the upgrade system?
Keep it as it is: How would you fix the upgrade system?
Remove downgrades: How would you fix the upgrade system?
Remove downgrades and tweak success rates: How would you fix the upgrade system?

Discussed yesterday/today on Discord:

RNG based

  1. Increase drop rate with current system: no go because new players wont know we increased drop rates and will eventually feel the same
  2. Set a ceiling where you need a jewel obtainable from quest: doesn’t really fix the current issue, it’s just an addon
  3. Increase upgrade chance with each fail: Still needs to deal with regression
  4. Give silver tickets with each upgrade fail: Still needs to deal with regression
  5. Keep it as it is but give out silver/golden tickets via weekly quests

Skill based

  1. Burn 1 rebirth and get 1 jewel with 100% chance (alter-exploit maybe?)
  2. Jewels obtained from a weekly quest with 100% chance (alter-exploit)
1 Like

I like option 2
Option one could also be a solution but that could also be very frustating when you never get one

End of day summary

As of 2019-09-24T20:55:00Z

Gear will require “gear exp” in order to upgrade it. This exp can be increased by pumping Upgrade Jewels into the item via the Upgrade NPC. Tiers are kept the same so you still need:

  • A jewels for up to +4
  • B jewels up to +8
  • C jewels up to +12
  • D jewels up to +16
  • New E jewels up to +20

To be defined

  • Amount of exp required per each upgrade, e.g: 1000 gear exp for +1
  • Amount of exp each jewel will give, e.g: Upgrade Jewel C = +64,000 gear exp
  • Corrupted Jewels - what can we do with these?
  • Failsafe Jewels - what can we do with these?
  • Perfect Jewels - what can we do with these?
  • How will each rebirth affect the gear exp while upgrading? Will it be a fixed +x% per rebirth or will it be exponential so the more rebirths you have the higher the bonus?

Pros:

  1. We can keep existing jewels (no wipe needed)
  2. Remove RNG along with “failed upgrade” and “downgrade” frustration
  3. No alt exploit (cant find a way alts could be used to exploit this system)
  4. We can add one more mod “+x% gear training” for faster upgrades

Cons

  1. Let me know if you find any

Notes

  • Player rebirth will affect the amount of exp each jewel gives
  • This is a 100% chance upgrade system without any RNG involved which should remove any kind of frustrations.

Special thanks to @kevhemingway @Jorob @Stormbeat @Jossvve @Shotgun and @Zelp

5 Likes

I’ll suggest not making the RB bonus exponential. I like the idea of rewarding RB, but a linear bonus will provide a compounded effect. You should also consider capping the bonus if you apply one, sorry Joss.

My reasoning is two-fold. The first is to maintain balance a game should follow the principle of diminishing returns (more xp required for next RB is an example). This helps new players feel they can reach where other players are.

Second concern is economy, an exponential bonus will mean that Joss can churn out +20 gears and become the richest player overni…oh nevermind.

Now that is a top award idea! And tbh, Joss will be always rich, no matter game changes. So we shouldn’t worry about that.

Some BR opinion:
The way it is already is very good, the bad is just to return everything, it would be good if it did not return, exp: + 1a +4 can go back to +1, but after passing +5 to +8 not return below +5 , that alone would fix…

From here:

What’s problem just increase drop chance of jewels? 100% chance upgrade? Upgrade exp? So, u mean that i will upgrade useless for me items? For what? I have so much questions about it. But i know only one thing. This will make game little easier. Just farm farm farm it. Waiting for autocombat (sarcasm)

So you do that with jewel E now and + 20 items
That exp thing could be a great solution but we need to make the +16 or 15 items +20 etc so that they dont get a downgrade

Right now upgrade is like gambling, you could use 1 jewel or 2000 for a sucessful upgrade.

In order to fix that the upgrade system will be fixed, so you will know how many Jewels A B C D X you will need to achieve an item +N lvl.

Don’t see a problem. Transparent system, without frustrations.
Be more specific about the problem you are suggesting(and a solution)

PD: Welcome!

The old +16 will be the same power as now, but will not be upgraded to new +20(Or whatever it will be called)

That’s in order to have a new challenge for those ones who got +16 equipment already.

Would it be possible to keep old system and use something like escalating odds? More gems you use more luck you Can have? Ofc there will be some cap on that because i think this is just easier and to from 1 to +10 is not so much problem but after that it is hard. With this system it depends only on time and eventually everybody will have +20 gear if they stick long enough with game. Now if someone Has +16 it is something unique. Maybe i would try to do this before changing to this new system. With escalating odds you can Also used perfect jew, failsafe etc all old gems.

Make it tha you can only work on 1 itme at a time

How about this:

  • All normal jewels give 100 exp.
  • Corrupt jewels have a 50/50 chance to either give 200 or -50 exp, but no downgrade if your item is at 0 exp.
  • Failsafe changed to ‘Premium’ jewels and give 200 exp.
  • Perfect jewels give 400 exp.
  • Every rb adds +1% more jewel exp.

+1 200 exp
+2 300 exp
+3 400 exp
+4 600 exp
Total 15 A jewels to get to +4

+5 700 exp
+6 900 exp
+7 1,100 exp
+8 1,500 exp
Total 15 A, 42 B to get to +8

+9 2,000 exp
+10 2,500 exp
+11 3,000 exp
+12 4,000 exp
Total 15 A, 42 B, 115 C to get to +12

+13 5,000 exp
+14 5,500 exp
+15 6,000 exp
+16 7,000 exp
Total 15 A, 42 B, 115 C, 235 D to get to +16

+17 9,000 exp
+18 10,000 exp
+19 11,000 exp
+20 15,000 exp
Total 15 A, 42 B, 115 C, 235 D, 450 E to get to +20

So as you can see, it’s still going to be pretty hard getting to +20.

One thing to note: say you used 1 A jewel to get 100 exp. You then used a corrupted A and actually lost 50 exp. You then used another corrupted and got 200 exp.
0 + 100 = 100
100 - 50 = 50
50 + 200 = 250
So you’d then have a +1 with 50 exp on it.

However, let’s say that you’re sitting at +3 with 500 exp in your item. You only need 100 more for +4, but you used a corrupted A/premium/perfect A, either of those will add more than the 100 you need. You’ll get the +4 but the exp from that jewel will not carry over. A jewels can only get you to +4. Same with the other thresholds.

Just my thoughts on this system.

We thought on this but we really want to get rid of the “failed upgrade” frustration. To do so the only way is to make it skill based. Those who play more or get to buy more jewels will be able to be stronger than those that happen to have good luck.

But we will also have a luck path… see next daily summary

1 Like

I can see tha u dont play tha much cuz if with those xp amout i can get 20k xp in 20min lol

Actually it is imposibile. You will need weeks, Maybe months to farm 450E jwl, if the drops are like D jwls.

Just put a limet to not go down in case of failures, no need to change the systems, exp: from +5 to +10 goes down to +5 and not back to + 0, +10 to 20 if it fails back only up to +10 and not back to +5

Summary

As of 2019-09-26T09:49:00Z

We have found a way to keep our current system but with a 100% success chance and without risking the whole server being +16 after 2 days.

Each normal jewel will increase your gear upgrade by one (1) with a 100% success chance. We will scale the power you used to get from a +16 item to +X(150 or more), meaning you will be able to dump all your jewels into your equipment up to +X (to be defined soon).

We will also have the RNG path by using Corrupted Jewels. Whit these you will be able to gain or lose X amount of upgrades per roll at a 50% chance, if RNGesus likes you you can cut the number of jewels needed by more than half.

Defined

  • Corrupted jewels will grant ±2(A), ±4(B), ±6(\C) or ±8(D) upgrades at a 50% success chance
  • Amount of different jewels required per rarity. So far we came up with two options:
    • Option 1: 10 A for Uncommon, 20 B for Rare, 40 C for Epic, 80 D for Legendary
    • Option 2: Anything harder than this (post your numbers below)
  • Option 1: Wow, this looks great
  • Option 2: Looks good, but maybe make a little harder?

0 voters

To be defined

  • Failsafe Jewels: TBD but possibly deprecated
  • Perfect Jewels: TBD but possibly deprecated

Notes

  • All items upgraded will be scaled to the new system, if you have a +16 item it will become +150 (or more depending on the poll above)
  • Each upgrade will give a power bonus
  • Current jewels won’t be touched

Gear EXP scrapped

Gear exp has been ruled out as it requires loads of database work plus more data being added to our already bloated items (upgrades, enchants, mods…). It would also require more UI to show the % of exp on each item.

This still frustrates when you fail the upgrade. Plus it is still luck based

Looks pretty decent. Maybe make jewels slightly higher. Upgrading is more a mid game to end game grind.

Maybe 20A, 30-40B, 50-60C and 90-100D That way, lower lvls can still get some upgrades but more so the player near RB 6 and so on are working on Higher tier upgrades.

1 Like