Since there is many player complaining about the upgrade system, I’m curious to know how you would fix it without making it easier.
1-Keep the percentage and fails as it is now, but when you reach lvl 8 you cannot go back so your floor now is 8 in the worst scenario. When you reach 12 it will be the new floor.
Getting to 8 will be difficult as now.
Going between 8 to 12 will be a little easier.
Going for 12 to 16 will be hard too, but not impossible than now.
The jewels D will start to have value, right now I drop them.
2-Improve the chances using more than one jewel, or combining some jewels or some other new material or thing.
The 1 for me is the best and easiest.
Would be great some poll. With a few options and a option for “the current system is fine”.
Like that maybe a little harder and more steps
For example +16 will be then a +20 and the “floors” are 5 10 15 or so…
So you will need more jewels but after you get to a certain point you cant get further down
That will also take a lot of time but it wont be so frustrating
This will lead to 100% success chance, if you try 20times at +8 you will get to +9 and beyond in one day
Same as above, this won’t help “fix” anything, it is only making it easier but not more rewarding
It’s the same - what’s the point of having a +5 if everyone has it? Plus it also starts to degrade PVE balance which is already quite hard to keep semi-balanced
I will start by saying we should change the title from “how to fix (is it broken?) the upgrade system” to “How to make the upgrade system more rewarding?”
Said that here is my proposal which kinda involves going back in time to where jewels were rare:
I didn’t invent the RNG upgrade system and there are plenty games out there that use it and are successful, but what I have always seen is a % of the population complaining about the RNG stuff. I include myself there and from the player point of view I don’t like it either, I usually go with the safest option and straight to PVP until I get destroyed by a +9000 P2W player but lets get back to the topic…
I don’t think we can come up with a system that doesn’t include RNG - what we can pretty quick is to lower the jewel drop rate and increase a lot the upgrade success rate. this way Jewels are rare, upgrades are fewer but once you get a jewel you can be 95% sure it will work.
Casual players will sell jewels because they are not aiming to +16, but hardcore players will aim to buy as many as they can plus farm them too which helps with economy.
We will also have to tweak drop rates as at the moment A,B,C,D have all the same chance of drop, we would have to specify each drop rate and I hope this way when a jewel D drops, people will kill themselves to get it.
This would be the easiest approach that I can only see having one problem:
- I requires us to remove all current jewels as there is people with tens of alters full of them
i mean a +16 will be then as good as a +20
A +5 on a item wont be easier (if first floor is 5)but a +5 will be less strong…if you understand what i mean
so jewel a will last until +8 …still same %
15 to 20 for example with very low chances
Keep it the same, we didnt wasted our time to get +13 - +16 with this upgrade system.It wont be fair for us.
We are not talking about resetting items upgrades, whats your point here?
i never meant that a +16 stay +16
i think…i cant describe it better so forget it xD
What about mixing my proposal to your proposal?
Make the jewels very rare(the D and C) so getting a 16 item would require a lot of gold or farming to have all the D and C necessary to have a +16 item.
Casual players will be happy with their 8-12 equipment(with and b)
hardcore gamers will be happy with their 12-16 equipment with c and d.
you can lower the chances between 14 to 16 to 1%
I think the upgrade is fine,cause i dont have good +,and others dont too,no problem. if all have good + then what’s the point? aren’t it the same as everyone has crap + too. but i do think there is a bug in it sometime because i failed +30 A and my item wont pass +3,it’s just kinda hard to believe. while on other day i only need 4 A to go +4.
RNG is necessary, but it doesn’t have to be punishing. If there was some skill or choice involved to temper the results of the RNG upgrades, then it might feel like I was participating.
Alkanov’s proposal would be the easiest to implement. Skill, ability, and knowledge of where to hunt tempers the RNG chances for drops even if they are super rare. There isn’t a feeling of being punished by the RNG. Additionally, it feels silly to be junking the “rarest” of upgrade gems because no one dares to use them. Implementation: give everyone a warning and a chance to use their stored gems, then wipe what isn’t used.
I’ll add my suggestion here as well(copied from Discord):
I don’t think you have to give it [the current mechanic] up to make the game more rewarding, or break the rarity of high end gear. You know, or can calculate, the average number of jewels required to make an upgrade happen. So keep the current mechanic, but add an additional mechanic for people who are willing to pay a higher cost to eliminate the RNG. A player can take x% chance to upgrade OR add the jewel to an upgrade progress bar. Make the number of jewels required equal to 150% - ???% of the average number one might spend on RNG. Make the scale lower to improve accessibility or higher to preserve rarity. It could even be an increasing scale for higher end upgrades.
It shouldnt be any easier to get upgraded gear - we are discussing about how to make the system more rewarding.
If we allow a casual player to be +8-+12 we are doing something wrong.
Why not make silver tickets permanent event.
What I am proposing is similar to this but we also make jewels rarity to drop harder the better the jewel is( A,B,C,D)
Silver tickets dont have risk, you push 100 and eventually you will get to +16.
True, but you will need an average of 200silver tickets minimum to get a +16 item. Go grind that…
Make it more rewarding? Simple fix. Get rid of the downgrades and make the chance of success lower. Keep it simple. You still have RNG, you increase jewel values as you’ll need more sure… but you don’t have instances of getting pissed when you hit C/D jewels only to have your item fail non stop back to 4 >.> Its not the RNG of success… its the stupid downgrade making all your time farming for jewels or gold to buy them become useless. People will only try so much before just not caring. Again keep it simple, little lower success, no downgrade.
So to put it all on one post, this is what the community suggests:
- Get rid of downgrade on fail
- Lower jewel drop rate
- Drop failsafe jewels or add them to quests so people can get more of these
- Make them non-tradeable to avoid quest exploiting with alters
- Leave drop rate as it is
- Leave downgrade as it is
And My suggestion from here
- lower the jewel drop rate a lot (to make jewels rarer)
- increase a lot the upgrade success rate
- tweak drop rates as at the moment A,B,C,D have all the same chance of drop, we would have to specify each drop rate, and I hope this way when a jewel D drops, people will kill themselves to get it
Any of the above will require us to remove all current jewels as there is people with tens of alters full of them
Stupid question, but would this affect the corrupted jewels in DS?