1.4 - New Custom Difficulty System

Since we have rebirths, training and upgrades there is no way our PVE difficulty can catch up with player’s power. The same applies to the rewards these players get thus making rebirths virtually impossible after a certain point;

To combat this, we want to introduce a difficulty system players can use to make PVE more challenging in exchange for a better reward and on a side we can also get some cool looking badges for those that are above the plain “Normal” difficulty.

The idea

The gist is that players can:

  1. Increase or decrease PVE difficulty (there is a technical catch here, read notes[1] below)
  2. To move from D1 to D2 (D=difficulty) players need to do something, could be paying a gold fee, craft an item, finish a quest without dying, meet certain stats like 1000 monsters killed, etc. We need your reasonable suggestions here
  3. Rewards must be increased in quality or quantity for this to be viable, few examples would include more experience per kill (see notes[2]), more chance to drop 3 augment items, more chance to drop already upgraded items, increased chance to drop repeated augments, etc. Again, we need your reasonable suggestions here
  4. We can display the [D] level of each player with a cool badge beside their nickname/titles
  5. There is a possibility for another leaderboard (see notes[3])

Notes

As always there are technical issues and limitations we need to take into account

  1. PVE difficulty: Monsters will still be shared and because of this, we cannot increase any monster’s stat that can affect players on other difficulties.
    • A perfect example of a stat we can’t scale would be HP, if we give monsters on [D5] 2x more HP, players on lower difficulties will also be affected by this.
    • One of the stats we can scale is the monster’s damage; We can hit [D5] players harder without affecting players on [D4] or less.
  2. Experience on parties is shared, the best way to avoid players on lower difficulties boosting players on higher difficulties is by calculating rewards based on the party’s “[D]” level. We have discussed this and we think the best way to combat this issue is to make the party [D] level scale to the lowest payers difficulty
    • Example: [D5]@Alkanov is on a party with [D3]@Zelp rewards and PVE difficulty will be scaled to [D3]
  3. In order to rank players, we need to find a way to track the time those are in each [D] level, otherwise, it would be quite exploitable for me to increase my difficulty to [D9000] and then not kill anything but still be #1 on the rankings.
  4. But… you can add new maps and that’s it! Adding new maps (we are working on it anyways) wouldn’t fix this problem because we can’t just make the progression from level 110 monsters to level 120 that are unkillable by rebirth 0 players
  5. v1.4 because v1.3 is the rebalance and few other enhancements see: 1.3 - New balance is coming soon! See what's new

TL/DR What we need (for the lazy)

  • What can players pay or do in order to increase or decrease their PVE “[D]” (difficulty) level?
  • What type of reward or rewards would be ideal for those that play on harder difficulties?
  • How many levels of difficulties would you think are the best?
15 Likes

While I love the idea, this does look like a logistical nightmare with parties of separate difficulty levels.

My proposal, which kinda does the same effect but i think is much simpler (could be wrong tho) and would personally love to see in this game:

Apologies in advance since this ISNT what you asked for but Im gonna propose it anyway,

A hardcore server. One for now, could scale more as game/server number grows. This server has:

  1. Karma free pvp
  2. 3x-4x monster stats
  3. 50-100% more exp/drop chance. Keep it basic, no fancy “more chance to drop same mod” stuff.
  4. No DS!
  5. Potentially some more xp loss on death, possibility of downgrade lvl, SOME kind of death consequence. Item loss is pretty brutal in my opinion but maybe lose whats in backpack or something. (Get those jeweeels)

And i think thats pretty much it. If I think of any other ideas ill add them if you totally dont shoot the idea down.

This accomplishes:

  1. Keeps high level players busy having fun
  2. Real competition over hunting and boss spawns, basically gvg content and real camping not just server hopping
  3. A spot to go when youre rocking that 10 man group and mobs on regular servers are disappearing as soon as they spawn its as if theyre not there
  4. A way for more experience but not without risk
  5. No crazy imagination or balancing needed, its the same for everyone just like current servers…if you should dare go there.
  6. It will go hand in hand with new balance update where pvp battles will be longer and more tactical, hopefully a group of 5 rb can put up a fight vs 1 high rb and itll be epic.
  7. Could always scale it more or add even harder servers if needed.

Potentially will be low lvls getting powerleveled by higher but you can do that anyway right now and they will likely die a lot (players and mobs) and it wont be worth it to go if you cant hold your own.

Thanks for reading and like i said if you hate the idea then ill give cool promotion ideas ^^ or shut up.

KH

5 Likes

This is exactly what we can’t do, and the reason is simple: it’s not scalable.

We can’t have X amount of servers and then Y amount are hardcore’s. Also hardcore for who? A reb15 player? How about reb20 players that think that hardcore server is easy?

I love this idea, stronger monster would require maybe full partys to hunt them, with buffers and Tanks, not this one-shot-hunter-meta, the thing is that if the mob has the same hp it would nerf melee vocations really hard and buff the already strong hunter class. I would make the player do less dmg (Only pve) as the dificulty increases to solve this problem.

What can players pay or do in order to increase or decrease their PVE “[D]” (difficulty) level?
I reckon they should pay a fee, this way high lvl player would still need gold, and also accomplish a task, like kill a certain number of monster or a certain number of rebirths in each difficult.

What type of reward or rewards would be ideal for those that play on harder difficulties?
Increased exp, gold, and chanceof dropping rares and more auguments for sure (the last one cant be a huge amount, just a slightly increase in each difficulty).

How many levels of difficulties would you think are the best?
It depends on how harder it will be to upgrade the dfficulty, how stronger the monsters are going to be and how rewarding is going to be. It doesnt neccessarily needs to be a fixed number, it can change through the updates.

Sorry for the bad english.
Hope I’ve helped.
Cya

2 Likes

Yeah but I feel like if you leave it to the individual to decide when to up difficulty he will upgrade it when he can 1 shot the mobs still in the new difficulty.

Like, whats the point in getting stronger just so you can gimp yourself to get more exp so you can get more gimp?

I do see what you mean though, its a problem if the game has a million active users how to distribute hardcore servers and such.

About how to balance the challenge of it, one of the challenge on the hardcore server would be the constant threat of pvp, so that part at least wont get “too easy” for the 20 rb player. As for the pve, it wont be challenging but itll be slower to kill a 30k hp mob vs a 10k hp mob even if you have 30 rb and 2k train. If you go really really far into the future, sure, the players might outgrow it.

If you make it such that a 15 rb player feels like he has 1 rb on this server, in order to do what he does now to the mobs in current servers hed need to get like 15x stronger which would kinda be difficult. If you know what i mean.

But I accept your decision as of course you have more experience than I, will come back tomorrow with hopefully more useful suggestions.

This is however what came off the top of my head in 10min, if youre willing to hear me out I could think it through a lot more.

Gnight!
KH

2 Likes

Its alright, your idea might actually be the way we will test difficulties anyway. We can spin up a new server and do this in 10mins, but first we need to define risks, rewards and rules.

Then we can auto increase difficulty with rebirths and let players increase it even more if they decide to. But these are all ideas which is what we need to come up with a more serious and concrete one

Thanks for your input

How so? I dont understand this bit.

We can make monsters hit more and get more defense which is similar to lowering players damage on PVE

Thanks for your input

I don’t see any problem adding new locations with stronger monsters that would require higher stats. It is alright if low/new players wouldn’t be able to kill them. I think it would give you a certain goal to accomplish - to be able to kill them.
I believe you are trying to make some cool content for strong players, yet you are afraid about new players not being able to experience it.

This game reminds me of MU online. Becoming too powerful for content was normal.
Maybe it was possible to add superior monsters that would spawn in rare occasions when killing regular mobs? Superiors would need a very strong player or a team to kill, would give good xp and potential drops. (new rings/necklaces?)

P.S.
Was wondering if it was possible to add “follow player” button?

The idea is that players level 120 rebirth 0 can kill monsters level 120, If we add zones for rebirth 2 and 5 and 10… and 20, then we will end up with 50 zones which 20 are not doable by normal players or maybe even 90% of them (as most people is not above reb10). Instead we can have 3 new zones and scale difficulty all across the map for better rewards

What Im trying to do is to recycle all areas so noobs and hardcores can use them.

  • What can players pay or do in order to increase or decrease their PVE “[D]” (difficulty) level?
    RB requirements, like 5rb can go D2, 10 D3 and so on.
    Train requirenent ex: any stat at minimal X lvl
    Would also ask for gold fee to change difficult, like 500k everytime you go up or down.
    Craft the badge for the desired difficult (badge will be new item explained at the end)
    .

  • What type of reward or rewards would be ideal for those that play on harder difficulties?
    Exp bonus, of course, cause i think players will possibly look for the best exp 90% of the time.
    As difficult increase, you could make rings/necks and skills drop on high lvl mobs instead of only bosses and DS
    Drop itens up to +50, +200, +500 depending on the difficult.
    Increase drop rate of legend and myth enchants while taking out lower rarity enchants from the drop pool.
    New enchants that drop only at a certain difficult and beyond
    Drop corrupt, failsafe or even perfet jewels depending on the difficult on normal mobs while taking out jewels A and eventually B from the drop pool.

  • How many levels of difficulties would you think are the best?
    Dont understimate the capacity of a player to grind diffuculties and play countless hours. Joss cough cough Joss.
    Code in a way that you can add difficults later. If you decide to link difficult to Rb and do it every x5 and x0, since we already have people at 20 Rb, that would be 4 Difficulties already, i would start with something like 6 to 10 difficults.

I see a huge problem here. As an old player ill look always to keep my exp earn as high as possible. This will lead to exclude lower D from parties and possibly open instantly kills cause anyone that isnt in your pt usually are messing the grind. I would look for a solution to make possible that players on different difficults can remain in the same pt and still get exp linked to its own difficult

I kind of just think about a solution for the exp problem. You could create a Badge for every D that you can only equip if you are at that difficult or higher and you will need to craft it. The badge will buff your exp like the way exp events buff (a increase after mods increase) so, for exmple a D2 player craft the D2 badge and equip it on the special characterer badge slot and it will buff your exp at a 1,25 rate, D3 badge 1.5 and so on (im just using any numbers here, i dont know how much is wise to buff, maybe every difficult increase 10% ? i dont know if linear increase is good)

The DX badge would buff individual expirience while making it possilbe to players of any D to pt up toguether. The requirement to be at a certain DX to equip the Badge is to prevent that you craft for exemple D4 badge to buff lets say x2 and go back to D2 and use it there. You would need to stay at D4+ to use a D4 badge

1 Like

IMo you need to add 0 RB zones at least up to lvl 150, cause it is at 150 that you RB. After 150 sure, come with 5/10/50 RB zones

You have a problem of a infinite growth mechanic without a infinite risk reward mechanic to counteract it.
Fix that problem and add a instance dungeon, the difficulty can be adjusted based in RB. It can be done solo or grouped (party leader decides dificulty), risk reward will adjust accordingly.
Parties have to be organized to get best exp, solo can get better than average or good exp/rewards compared to unorganized parties.

Treant groups are a good example of an organized party. Tanky classes pulling mobs to a group of players to aoe nuke them. Have the map design be so annoying that people can’t just go in circles all the time and instead rely on teamwork! Have elites mobs in these dungeons mixed with normal ones, give elites a aoe etc.
Lower RB players get restricted exp if the difficulty is too vast for their current power.

Having strong players mix with weak players but experiencing different difficulty, different rewards on the same mobs in the same party makes no sense. It wouldn’t fix the problem of mobs being weak, the game getting easy or old players being OP on same map.

Furthermore party rewards depending on the lowest common denominator or the average will bring a lot of politics and toes are gonna be stepped on, new players will not like this.
I can be done but there will be all types tyranny, if not straight away then eventually. Its a bad can of worms.

If a dungeon takes too long then a temp fix of a new hardcore server is not a bad idea. If old players still find it too easy, make it harder, it’s a temp fix there is no infinite risk reward to please everyone.

My two piece, hope it’s useful.

TL/DR
•Custom difficulty dungeon that promotes teamplay
•Rewards scale with difficulty/group strength (exp, gold, item drop chance etc)

Instance some areas and have a setting toggle selecting the difficulty mode easy norm hard reaper.

Xp change to be based on rb, player level, monster level, and if in group a combination of any/all.

Loot tables increase based on difficulty and again the rb/player level involved, let the pl/rb be the deciding factor.

You can cap xp based on the rb level and if in group. ie a rb0 grouped with say a rb 10 (as you said with d4 and d5 being non issue) would end with little to no xp due to a level gap being too large and reduced drops, reducing power level/item farming.

Edit:
Alternatively you can set it such that if say an rb 10 is in a normal instance rating their xp or stats are reduced to counter simply farming the easy mode.

Penalty wise on death the xp loss becomes harsher as you go to harder instances and at the highest level you can start going backwards in levels or even have a 1% chance or something of losing a rb.

Unlock higher levels via quest which requires x rb level to even receive and toggle the difficulty setting same way you do with the pvp axe.

Random numbers, Normal is as normal is, hard 2x hp/dmg +10% chance of x items elite 3x ho/dmg 15% items reaper 4x hp/dmg +25% chance of x items ect.

The instancing of it would simply set 4 of the areas. Ie: 4x ice areas or skele areas to still allow the open pvp since you already have to zone into those areas as it is. Could be implemented with the new/upcoming maps so as not to mess with current ones.

This seems so complicated!

Why can’t you just add powerful level 200’s in a new area beyond Rynthia? You can have a of gatekeeper that only lets you access that area after 8 rebirths. And use this requisites as a basis to calculating the strength of the mobs.

I’m fairly new to Laurum, so I apologize if my suggestions have been hashed out already or even already exist and i’m just unaware.

Loving the game - reminds me of a childhood 2d MMO i played called Aspereta (then, Illutia) in many ways.

I believe addressing scalability in the exponential power curve may not be simply mitigated by increasing rewards / drops, as many of those who “need more” to challenge them are likely close to best in slot already, making it a monetary advantage.
I think scaling back against the power curve with diminishing returns on stats. For example, I read somewhere (may be old info.) that dex soft caps at 500 for a max of 50% crit chance. My suggestion would be to keep this (or whatever are current soft caps) at that same amount, but with more benefit to stat points added earlier, diminishing as you get closer to 500. For example: 0+10 dex would add 2% crit chance, but 100+10 dex would only add 1% crit chance (pulling these numbers out of the air just as an example).

Another suggestion is to create content that requires a group, whether someone has 0 RBs or 10 but obviously being easier with more RB’s, although still impossible to solo. Mobs that do a base dmg + a % of health that require a tank, someone healing, sprinkled in with other mobs that require the range of a hunter or mage. Mechanical limitations that can’t be overcome through RB’s.

I do also like the idea of difficulties, but I have a feeling an increased drop rate on 3mod items would be hard to balance and still be incentive, when high RB players can just kill more mobs quicker at 0 RB’s. In many games, players tend to opt for quantity of kills where drop rates are marginally different. Instead, can new loot be only acquirable when in D1+? Adding a gold cost and quest to enter a higher difficulty state (gold cost / quest difficulty based on difficulty being entered), with new loot available in D1 and higher chances of augments/enchantments in higher difficulties. Perhaps D1 for new base gear, D2 for new accessories, and D3 for a new tier of spells. You could even sprinkle some challenges like difficulty X introducing chance to drop items even in PvE.

Anyway, I’m confident you guys will find a solid solution - i’ve been super impressed with the development activity and how solid of a game this is compared to the other mobile games on the market. Will continue to support with my wallet :slight_smile:

1 Like

You can make a experience in every monster based on rebirt in player ?

How about this badge have buff like increase exp xx% and off course difficulty also increase when ppl wearing this badge.
So its not just empty badge.
I think its more easier this way than you modify the mobs.
And for the hardcore one you can make new portal to ascending to next lvl
It can be same mobs and places (or new one. Kinda like dugeon) but with stronger mobs and all aggressive mob.
The drop from mobs must better than normal one tho.
And if you think it will destroy the balance then just make it each player can only go to that portal 2-3 time/day or something like that.

Oh, yeah
Almost forgot.
Will you make this game compatible with ios or pc?
Im waiting for it

1 Like

Unfortunately, we can instance areas as it would require a huge amount of work and changes to our architecture.

And how about reb 15 players? They will still find reb 8 area super easy, this is not a solution. It also limits players below reb 8 (the majority) to a smaller map

Indeed we can, what’s your idea?

Apologies if I don’t reply to all posts, it would take me hours to redact a dedicated reply to all of them. But I can assure you that we are taking notes and trying to come up with a more robust idea while also keeping in mind our technical limitations (like instancing)

1 Like

Increase damage frommobs wont make it harder and just boosts the better players with more drop chance or exp. With the +1000hp potions thats not hard to stay alice as a good player

Personally i think it could be a good idea to make one map with completely overpowered mobs(like bosses but stronger) for like 5-10 rb player and then 10-20 etc
Or just one map with mobs where ppl need to group up with a minimum of like 5 Player rb7+ thats like mirage realm then…idk
But with these difficulty system i dont feel like it could work

Because if the monster have the same effective hp ( Defense & HP) ranged units would still one shot them before even get hit, while the melee would need to get closer, getting hit by ranged ones and maybe even melee ones.
The only way this dificulty increase would create a scenario where every class would benefit were if the ranged and glass cannon classes would need the tank and buff ones to hun in places where they would make tons of xp. This go the same way to hunts, I believe nowadays hunts (lvl 90+) benefit so much heavy single target units (hunters) that the party play feels like running around while the guy on the front one shots everything.
The way I see it, It should have places where the monster are really tank and strong, the rangeds shouldnt have enough space to run around, so the only way to deal with the mobs is making a party with melee classes (Really strong 1vs 1 monster where hunters would benefit). While there should be places where the monster are a bit weaker so the melee classes can make lures like the Trees and golems (Wizards would benefit more).